Donald Trump’s conversation with tech billionaire and besieged free speech warrior Elon Musk was full of surprises.
While debates between presidential candidates are important and hostile interviews from sharp reporters remain essential to testing the merit of political character – there is something to be said for a longer conversation.
Not only do these events provide an opportunity to hear, in detail, what a potential President thinks, it gives the candidate ample opportunity to trip over and reveal any problematic thoughts that would not ordinarily stumble out during rehearsed responses.
That Donald Trump maintains his composure for over two hours can only be taken as good sign for his mental fitness.
Let us skip over the usual criticism by jealous broadcasters about the ‘shaky start’. I’m sure a few printing presses got stuck when humanity discarded their clay tablets. Attempting to livestream an interview to tens of millions via Twitter’s Spaces platform remains an experimental technology … an experiment run by the man who has revolutionised rocket technology far ahead of NASA (an entity paid US$650 billion since its establishment).
— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) August 13, 2024
The conversation began with Elon Musk returning to the assassination attempt in which Musk praised Trump for getting back off the ground so quickly.
‘You were pumping your fist in the air saying, “Fight! Fight! Fight!” I think the President of the United States represents America – and I think that is America. That is strength under fire.’
He goes on to ask, ‘It was just incredibly inspiring, but what was it like for you?’
There is a slight pause from Donald Trump. ‘Not pleasant, I have to be honest…’
After all, he was shot.
It is a joke, and there was laughter.
Trump went on to describe the event as ‘surreal’ and a ‘miracle’, which is what it must have felt like. ‘For those people that don’t believe in God,’ Trump added, ‘I think we got to all start thinking about that. You have to. I’m a believer now. I’m more of a believer, I think.’
A return to the Christian faith is a big part of American politics. As a nation, it is not the same as Europe or Australia where right versus left splinters down a religious line. Even the Democrats maintain their religious credentials however Democrat voters – especially the young influenced by Marxist doctrine in the education system – are increasingly irreligious.
Trump is not one to wade too heavily in religion. He returns to a lighter aside… ‘It was amazing that I happened to be turned just at that perfect angle. And all because I put down a chart on immigration that showed that the numbers were so great. I love that chart even more now…’
An act of God to save Trump’s life turned into a sign that mass illegal migration must be stopped.
‘Maybe it’s a sign…’ said Musk.
‘It’s an immigration sign…’ agreed Trump.
Give the man some credit as a smooth political mover.
‘I think your actions in the heat of fire … what I find admirable there was that you can’t fake bravery under such circumstances. The courage is instinctual, or it’s not. It’s not a rehearsed action.’
Musk’s comments are interesting. In the age of social media, but especially platforms such as TikTok, our world is becoming increasingly ‘produced’. We experience each other via performances. It is how we see our peers and how we experience our political leaders. Trump’s actions following his assassination attempt was one of the first real things that people have seen a politician do in quite some time. A hundred years ago, our politicians lived a high-risk existence of spontaneity – that is how their lives had always been in the ancient world. It is interesting how quickly people attached themselves to the Trump brand when they felt the rawness of reality touch the man’s ear.
‘Illegal immigration saved my life,’ said Trump.
The rest of the conversation turned to the frightening reality of America’s border crisis. It’s a weak point for the Democrats because the whole world knows that Trump built the wall and Biden unlocked the doors. Sanctuary Cities are a creation of the Blue States.
‘I say it very simply. They have to come in legally. They have to be checked. Kamala [Harris] was the Border Czar. Now she’s denying it … we had the worst numbers [at the border] in the history of the world, not of our country,’ said Trump.
‘There’s never been a country in history that has had a catastrophe like this. We’ve had, I believe, it’s over 20 million people came into our country. Many coming from jails, from prisons, from mental institutions, or a bigger version of that is insane asylums. And many are terrorists. And I’ll tell you what, they’re coming not just from South America, they’re coming from Africa. They’re coming from all over the world. They’re coming from Asia. They’re coming from the Middle East.’
Musk agreed. ‘I think it is essential to have a secure border. I mean, you’re really not a country unless you’re in a secure border.’
It’s a simple, yet controversial statement.
It’s difficult to summarise, but what follows is an assertion that these countries are emptying their jails and enjoying lower levels of crime as a result of shipping criminals into America.
‘Crime all over the world is down. And wait until you see the numbers that we have. This is migrant crime,’ said Trump.
It would be interesting to see a true investigation into this – not only for America – but for the situation in Europe. Are crime stats being transferred between countries on the back of illegal migration? Or is there an endless pool of criminal behaviour that spreads, eventually consuming every country until regimes are forced to employ Medieval punishments?
‘These are rough people. These are people that are in jail for murder and all sorts of things. And they’re releasing them into our country. And they’re telling them, “If you come back, we’re going to kill you. We’re going to give you the death penalty or kill you.” So they don’t want to come back. But these are rough people. These are criminals that make our criminals look like nice people.’
Musk replied, ‘Whether it’s a question of intention or competence, either way, we don’t have a secure border. And we have people streaming over, it looks like a World War Z zombie apocalypse at times. And sometimes you got to sort of wonder, is it real or not? Because you see things, and you’re like, “Is it real?” So I went to the border at Eagle Pass, and I saw it for myself in Texas … people can look at my video and say, “Hey, these people look friendly.” They don’t look super friendly…’
Then, Musk makes another crucial point that is overlooked by the ‘let’s all just hug and live as one’ politicians.
‘It’s just the border with Mexico, but the people coming in … it’s Earth. The rest of Earth. And America is only about 4 per cent or 5 per cent of the population of Earth. It would only take a few percent of the rest of Earth to overwhelm everything in the US.’
‘We’re already overwhelmed, Elon. We’re overwhelmed…’ Trump sighs. ‘Well, Elon, just to finish this up, we’re going to have the largest deportation in [the] history of this country. We have no choice. Otherwise, we’re not going to have a country…’
And that’s where the line comes from that sent social media into a spin. Is it really so controversial to deport those who entered the country illegally? Countries such as China do it without a thought or whisper from the United Nations.
Moving on to geopolitics, there is a discussion about Russia, Ukraine, and the wider dependence on oil as a political motivator. Trump is quick to criticise Biden for shutting down the Keystone KL Pipeline and then approved a Russian pipeline. Musk is right to say it doesn’t make any sense, but how often is Biden held to account for it? Never, because the story isn’t printed.
The interesting part of this discussion is the importance of global perception.
Musk says, ‘I think it’s just worth emphasising to listeners the immense importance of whether the United States President is intimidating or not intimidating and how much that matters to global security. There’s some real tough characters out there and if they don’t think the American President is tough, they will do what they want to do.’
‘I know every one of them…’ replies Trump.
‘It puts the whole world in danger.’
‘Elon, I know every one of them. I know them well. I know Putin. I know President Xi. I know Kim Jong-Un of North Korea. I know every one of them. Let me tell you, People will say, “Oh, this is terrible.” I’m not saying anything good or bad. They’re at the top of their game. They’re tough. They’re smart. They’re vicious. And they’re going to protect their country whether they love their country, they probably do. It’s just a different form of love, but they’re going to protect their country.’
Trump says this knowing that, if he is elected, he will need to conduct negotiations with these leaders. For this reason, his public conversation with Musk is measured, as you’d expect. There is room to read between the lines and in this instance, it feels as if Trump is warning listeners that the dictators of the world are not afraid to take dangerous actions against America to enrich themselves if they sense weakness in the White House.
Look at this example from Trump.
‘I don’t want to do anything bad to Iran, but they knew not to mess around. Iran was broke because I told China, “If you buy from Iran oil…” It’s all about the oil. That’s where the money is. “If you buy oil from Iran, you’re not going to do any business with the United States.” I meant it. They said, “We’ll pass.” They didn’t buy oil.’
Trump did do ‘bad’ to Iran. He made sure they were broke – but his phrasing is superb.
When the Democrats lifted sanctions on Iran, they effectively poured money into Iran’s weapons program. Everyone knows it. Maybe the Democrats thought they could comfortably profit from a foreign war, if so, they are unforgivably stupid as well as reckless.
‘People like Kim Jong-Un, they respond to strength, not weakness,’ said Musk.
‘If you think about it,’ said Trump, ‘Obama and Biden and Bush to a certain extent, in all fairness, forced Russia and China together. If you’re a history student, the first thing you learn is you cannot let Russia and China align. Then they also got, if you take a look, Iran, and they have North Korea. They call it the axis of evil in the old days, you had the axis of evil. Here we have a modern-day axis of evil. These are powerful countries, with heavy nuclear, which is the biggest threat. The biggest threat is not global warming, where the ocean’s going to rise one-eighth of an inch over the next 400 years and you’ll have more oceanfront property. The biggest threat is not that. The biggest threat is nuclear warming because we have five countries now that have significant nuclear power and we have to not allow anything to happen with stupid people like Biden.’
Trump added that there were numerous tensions and conflicts going on that could lead to a third world war. Plenty of geopolitical experts agree with him.
He adds that if he is elected, Trump will build an Iron Dome over America similar to Israel.
I haven’t seen anyone else report on this statement but it is a sensible solution given that America is no longer protected from hot war by the tyranny or distance. China can hit American cities if it wants to.
‘We’re going to have the best Iron Dome in the world. We need it and we’re going to make it all in the United States, but we’re going to have protection because it just takes one maniac to start something.’
One wonders if Trump has reached this position having been in the firing line of ‘one maniac’ who almost ended his life.
Their chat moves on to talk about inflation and the economy. There is no new content here, but it is good to hear two very rich gentlemen talking with compassion about the poor and plotting ways to help make other people rich. Instead of stealing private wealth and ‘redistributing’ it, as is the lazy socialist way, they talk about options to lower inflation, cut government spending, and increase productivity for individuals.
Here comes another fun part of the conversation where Donald Trump effectively invites Elon Musk to audit US Government spending.
‘The waste is incredible and nobody negotiates prices,’ said Trump.
‘I think it would be great to just have a government efficiency commission that takes a look at these things and just ensures that the taxpayer money, the taxpayers’ hard-earned money, is spent in a good way. I’d be happy to help out on such a commission.’
‘I’d love it…’
‘If it were formed.’
‘Well,’ replied Trump, ‘you’re the greatest cutter. I mean, I look at what you do … you would be very good. Oh, You would love it.’
The conversation wanders for a while. If you’re interested in the American education system of the status of their Governors, you can read it in full.
Eventually Elon Musk decides to make his position on renewable energy clear.
As a manufacturer of electric vehicles – something that should endear him to left but rather seems to infuriate them – there has been a great deal of speculation about Musk’s position. Which is fair. He might fly the flag of EVs, but he also runs a space program with rockets.
‘I should probably say something about my views on climate change and oil and gas because I think they’re probably different from what most people would assume. My views are actually pretty moderate in this regard, which is that I don’t think we should vilify the oil and gas industry and the people that have worked very hard in those industries to provide the necessary energy to support the economy. And if we were to stop using oil and gas right now, we would all be starving and the economy would collapse. So I don’t think it’s right to vilify the oil and gas industry. And the world has a certain demand for oil and gas, and it’s probably better if the United States provides that than some other countries, and it would help with prosperity in the US. And at the same time, obviously, my view is like we do over time want to move to a sustainable energy economy because eventually you run out of oil and gas. It’s not infinite and there is some risk. I think the risk is not as high as a lot of people say it is with respect to global warming. But I think if you just keep increasing the parts per million in the atmosphere long enough, eventually it actually simply gets uncomfortable to breathe. People don’t realise this. If you go past a thousand parts per million of CO2, you start getting headaches and nausea. And so now we’re in the sort of 400 range. We’re adding, I think, about roughly two parts per million per year. So it still gives us… What I mean is we still have quite a bit of time. So it’s not like we don’t need to rush and we don’t need to stop farmers from farming or prevent people from having steaks … leave the farmers alone.’
I’d be interested to see what Ian Plimer has to say about that, because the atmosphere is not a closed system. When you add CO2, plant life increases to consume it and the balance adjusts.
Trump allows Musk to make his position, answering ‘right’ rather than agreeing or disagreeing.
‘I think we should generally lean in the direction of sustainability. And I actually think solar is going to be a majority of the Earth’s generation in the future, and it’s certainly trending that way … we don’t believe that environmentalism, that caring about the environment, should mean that you have to suffer. So we [at Tesla] make sure that our cars are beautiful, that they drive well, that they’re fast, they’re sexy. They’re cool. In fact, I literally made the sexy joke model S, model 3, model X, and model Y spells SEXY. It was probably the most expensive joke out there.’
‘Right.’
Trump pivots pretty quickly to nuclear power. It’s reasonable to guess that his election pitch sits somewhere between, ‘Drill, baby, drill!’ and ‘Nuclear!’
‘People have this fear of nuclear electricity generation, but it’s actually one of the safest forms of electricity generation. It’s just a huge misunderstanding,’ says Musk.
Bowen – Bowen? Are you out there?
After half an hour spent rehashing the European Union and Nato, honestly it’s a conversation you’ve all heard before, we get back to the sentiment of hope upon which the election hinges.
‘They want the American Dream back. It’s more important than anything else,’ said Trump.
And he’s right. People in the West are exhausted by the endless assault of progressive politics – a type of politics that not only diminishes nations and drains the economy, it also harms the mental wellbeing of its citizens by saddling them with ‘original sin’. The reinstatement of race politics at the hands of the Left has been one of the most destructive events of our century.
Listening to the conversation, it’s a shame we don’t have a Trump-Musk ticket.
